What would you add?

[Jane]

Next thing you know, they'll have radio, then television! :compress:

They have electricity, which in our history was predated by newspapers.

But, this is not my campaign.  Riverboats are enough for me!

[Amanda N]

Hey, I think the riverboats are cool!

[PastMember]

Dialects are a definite!  I mean, look how different all our dialects are in the former colonies!  Just a few hundred years seperated from England and you get completely different dialects - New Zealand, Australia, America, Canada, South Africa, the Carribean...  Even within those countries in a few short generations the dialects have changed.  Over thousands of years, it would unrecognizeable!  I swear mass media may be the only thing that saves all our versions of English from losing a common root.

Now, is it out of cannon to suspect that there are different accents on Pern? I would find it impossible to believe that accents do not exist. You would think some one from Telgar sounds different from some in Nerat, to some one in Fort, etc... Much like American English is different from ENGLISH English which is different from Australian English, etc...

[Amanda N]

I would say that there must be different accents.  I want to even say that something akin to that was mention in one of the books, but as some people who played with me when I joined Pern Shadows will remember, my memory really isn't very good.  

Regardless, I would think that accents would exist as well as certain colloquialism that would be used more in some places than others.  I mean, I was reading a post where someone (might have been Fog) referred to his father as Dar.  Amish often say Datt.  I have a friend whose son calls him Poppi (he lives in the North) and another friend who lives down here in the south whose son calls his father Papa, where as many other people call their fathers dad or daddy.  I know that Nana seems to be a popular term for grandmother with my Northern born friends and family where as in the South I hear more 'grandma' and 'grammy'.

[Eimi]

It's "grandma" mostly in Washington I think... At least that's what I always called mine ;)  I never had a pet name for them.

And I think that you could certainly tell someone from the country from someone in the city on Pern, but AM had originally wanted it to be pretty much standardized.  But I'm sure there are slight accents between places, especially between the North and South.  And there would be different terms for things between places (Weyrs have fostermothers, Holds have nursery workers maybe) and your craft would determine a lot too (a weaver might say "He doesn't have enough thread to make a bolt" to mean someone's not quite all there, and a sailor might say "he doesn't have all his sails up" or something...)

[Amanda N]

My children call my MIL Nana.  Kat couldn't pronounce grandma so called my mother 'Mima' (mee-muh). :-D

[Eimi]

Oh, and I think the reason Pern DOESN'T have newspapers is the cost of paper... That was my take on it...

[Jane]

Oh, and I think the reason Pern DOESN'T have newspapers is the cost of paper... That was my take on it...

Ahh, but they have romance novels.

[Amanda N]

Isn't paper cheaper and more readily available now?

[PastMember]

I call my grandparents Abuelos, so I don't think my dialect opinion counts here ;)

As far as Pern goes though, if Anne Mccaffrey wanted to create a believable society, one that others could relate to, I think dialect and religion were two things that she over looked. A great error on her part if you ask me, because her readers had to be very tolerable of these flaws.

Another thing is society conflicts. I guess that is why I liked so much about DragonFlight, because it had this. Fax was a man that craved power and did what many human historical figures on earth attempted to do, usurp the current leader by any means necessary. Fax even used genocide. Genocide! It is not a pretty picture, but again the Pernese are human and it is not far fetched that they would do this. What is hard for me to believe is that during those long intervals nothing would have happened, especially when Pern is made up of humans.

Oh, and don't get me started on the male blue and green riders. If you want a good argument/ theory regarding Impression (which covers the issue of homosexuality and dragons) read this essay. It is one of the best presentations of the theory of Impression that I have ever seen

All of these were some of the hardest things I had to swallow when I did read the Pern stories. She created a great concept, but it seemed like AM was trying to remove some very human aspects of her world that she just did not like at the time. Everyone wants something of the world to be different, but any society created by humans is just that: Human. Sorry but "it's my world and I can do what I want" is never an excuse when attempting to write a society (especially when claiming that your stories are Science Fiction) unless you are purposely attempting to make your world two dimensional.

The only thing that has held my fascination for the world of Pern for so long is that idea, the concept of the dragons and their riders. To bond with another mind with the strength and dedication that she describes. This concept is one of her strongest creations in the world of Pern.

[Amanda N]

Yeah I think I remember reading that she said Pern didn't have war, but that's what Fax pretty much did - wage war.  It may not have been on the scale we think of, or in the matter we think of, but it was still war.

[Avery]

I am in complete agreement on the dialects idea. My linguistic anthropology professor told us that in Nepal, a society where people walk between most towns and cities and with only some electricity, etc, very agricultural, not exposed to the modern world, that there's such dialectal variance that many villagers can't understand Standard Nepali and vice versa. If that can occurr in a single country, across an entire planet, even with dragonriders and Harpers, it should be impossible to not have not only accents, but regional dialects that probably are difficult for those to understand by those not of that region.

I'd imagine it might be Weyr-based: i.e. since Weyrs cover Holds within a certain geographical region, and dialects tend to stay in a certain region, then all of RBW's Holds might have dialect A, while DCW's might have dialect B. Perhaps dragonriders, who can have frequent inter-Weyr and inter-Hold contact by virtue of message-running, etc (as well as Harpers) speak a "standard" version of the language, or a refined upper-class type version, so that all riders from all Weyrs can always communicate. But you should always be able to tell where someone comes from by accent.

And if there's accent and dialect, there must also be cultural variation. England's culture is different from Canada's is different from America's is different from Australia's- and that's just a few English-speaking countries! Don't tell me that Holds, who tend to contact themselves, their minor holds and cotholds, and their Weyr (sometimes) as well as neighboring Holds (for trade and on occasion), don't develop separate cultures. In fact, they're far more likely to given the absence of a homogenizing factor such as mass media. At the very least, traditions should spring up in some that seem completely foreign to those of others, and someone who has moved to a new Hold might commit multiple social faux pas before adapting to the new lifestyle.

I think Triad kind of does this with its Holds, and I wish we explored that more. AHH takes the female craft ban and woman as mother and alliance-maker far stronger than does the other Holds, which has shocked the ACH people, for example. EFH is dealing with the effects of liberalizing. I imagine there are probably many other practices that vary strongly between Holds like this.

Another thing I think was left out is lesbians. We have gay men, but not gay women? Seriously? I find that incredibly unlikely. Maybe they don't Impress (although personally, I think at least bisexual women should be able to Impress green), but they must exist somewhere!

And, about the newspapers idea, I don't see why we can't have them? Sure, paper is expensive, but newspaper tends to be a cheaper easier to produce kind than computer or photo paper. Maybe the Printers discover a way to make a new paper that can still be printed on and is strong enough to survive a reading or two, but isn't high-quality and can be cheaply produced. Maybe if not to everywhere, they could print a few copies each to go to main areas (our Weyrs and Major Holds) that can be circulated about. Maybe the Weyrharper or Hold Harper could be in charge of reading them at a certain time that way everyone gets the news. Something like that.

[Yvonne]

And, about the newspapers idea, I don't see why we can't have them? Sure, paper is expensive, but newspaper tends to be a cheaper easier to produce kind than computer or photo paper.

I always pictured the ubiquitous romance novels in Pern as penny dreadfuls - cheaply printed with cheap in on cheap paper and liable to fall apart after a reading or two. Something that could be bought en-masse by a merchant and sold for two-eighths of a mark at Gathers. Which is why Thalia has her favourites rebound in leather so that they'll last longer. :P

[Amanda N]

Jane has a female character who is gay, Avril.

[Avery]

Jane has a female character who is gay, Avril.

Yep, I know. I was referring to canon when I said that.