Poll: Would you want lesbian/bisexual girls on greens?

[Leigh]

I realize Triad was built on specific rules that weren't relaxed by Mrs. McCaffrey for a long time. However, as much as some potential players might appreciate the old-school feel of only heterosexual women allowed to Impress green and gold, it may be turning off just as many potential players. I've never said this, but I initially rejected Triad as a possibility to play in because lesbians and bisexual women can't Impress here. Obviously, I changed my mind, and I'm having a blast.

On the other hand, just look at how many active players we have compared to lurkers, people who've left, or people who're going to leave: Roughly fourteen active members and roughly twenty-four who're gone, lurking, or planning on leaving. It might be time for a change.

From a logical standpoint, it's like this: Greens are the most numerous dragons in any Weyr. We love our greens. We need our greens. Allowing lesbian and bisexual women to Impress opens a wealth of choices for them. If anyone's worried that lesbians won't want to sleep with men and will panic, endangering their green during a mating flight, well, the same risks run with men in denial or hidebound virgin holdgirls. And it could well be a rare occurrence, one that would require a Marks purchase or other limits, such as only one or two per Hatching.

But oh, think how it could shake things up. (grins)

[Heather]

I struggled with this question.

I very, very much like that Triad is strict canon. I believe Triad's strict keeping to Anne McCaffrey's original canon is what sets us apart from so many cliche, female-bronzerider, silver-spotted dragons, play-on-forums clubs. It makes us different in a time where there aren't many (if any) that keep strict canon any more. I like this.

However, to me it seems logical that if a male bluerider may be bisexual (rather than strictly homosexual), then why can a female greenrider not be bisexual (rather than strictly heterosexual)? It does not change her dragon's purpose, nor does it hinder her dragon in any way during mating flights.

Thus I would vote for "bisexual only" as my opinion on the matter, but in the end, I am very happy to accept whatever the Council thinks is best when it comes to preserving Triad's canon.

[Avery]

I know Triad is a strict canon site and part of our strict canon is women on greens and gold only. But I think it's a good idea to allow bisexual women on green dragons. They're still women on greens. They can like men enough to be fine with the flight. And it's giving the most numerous dragonets even more choices of people to Impress to so they don't get left behind.

[Suzee]

Hey guys,

While I admire your thoughts this really should be discussed by the council. I, like Heather, was very attracted by the fact that Triad's front page tells everyone we're strict canon.  I've been at other sites with other colors and strange behaviors that made them 'oh so not Pern.' If you want a black and/or red dragon that spits acid instead of flame... this isn't the place. I know I'm being a bit extreme but it's to illustrate a point. We'd need to find an example of Anne writing it either in a book or response to a question.

Take a look at this faq: http://triadweyrs.org/faq.php?fq_id=489

If we can do some research in the books and see if we can find something that points to what you're thinking about there, then I'm pretty sure it would be approved.

But Pern isn't Earth in oh so many ways including religion and war. I like it like that.

[emma]

Well said Suzee, I think part of our take on Pern is that strict approach to canon when it comes to impression. Nobody is saying you can't have a female persona who likes both sexes, or just one. Nobody is saying such a character can't be a candidate, our canon currently is that the lesbian / bi girls don't impress, and nobody quite knows why that is.

It may be that you've seen the later books written by Todd, and yes, there is even a female character riding blue, but if you look at it FAQs, it lists which books we take as current canon.

Let the council discuss this, and while no promises on anything, we will talk.

Apologies for any typos, using the phone isn't as easy as a keyboard

[Len]

I can understand the want of council only on this discussion, but being as Leigh has said, we ARE losing or have lost more writers than we currently have. And I have to admit that I have been on the cusp for some time of leaving, but should the chance come up to play a more equal and diverse Pern than it would make staying both much easier and more fun.

But then again, I'm all for lesbians on blues...so maybe I should just go back into my corner and shut up. :P And for the record, wanting that does NOT mean I also want a purple spotted silver dragon that fires bubbles out of her mouth whilst shooting rainbows out her backside. ;-)

[Leigh]

Exactly. I'm not suggesting a mass of changes. Just a small one I hope people could enjoy. And I'm very, very thankful that the Council would discuss it, even if it's voted down. Being listened to means a lot.

[Heather]

we ARE losing or have lost more writers than we currently have.

But how many of those writers left because a lesbian couldn't ride a green dragon? Many have left (I think of Clancey and Ames just to name a couple) who simply had real life obligations that came first. So I think that blaming our canon on loss of members a rather bold statement. And honestly, I'd rather have the quality writers that we have than quantity any day. Triad is not perfect, but is a wonderful place that runs smoothly, has fair governing, gifted writers, and people who are always willing to copost.

Thanks Leigh for the topic, and thank you Council for being gracious enough to discuss it

[Devin]

I've wanted to bring this up NOT to try and change Triad cannon, but to lament that we're stuck with McCaffrey's outdated and incorrect views of sexuality. For the time, she was very liberal to include gay and bi men in such a casual way and allowing them to be dragonriders. But to look at her explanations for why certain dragons Impress to certain sexualties goes against current science and flies in the face of our modern understanding.

It's been a while since I read the books, but I don't even remember a mention of a woman who was attracted to women. As if they don't even exist on Pern, let alone could possibly be dragonriders. I've seen that Todd has tackled that head-on by having a bisexual woman Impress blue, which is great. And in the earliest books, women couldn't ride green at all. I don't know if she planned to add them all along or if she decided she wanted more female dragonriders.

Using the older books as cannon (which I'm totally fine with) unfortunately traps us in a time capsule of a sci-fi series that started in 1968.

[Suzee]

After a very thorough discussion in the council forums and taking the poll into consideration, the Council has created a new FAQ for Triad.  This is a change in our former policy and, we believe, will add to the richness of our Role Play.

FAQ:

My female candidate is bisexual or lesbian, can she be an candidate and impress?

We believe that lesbian and bisexual women would have the right to stand as candidates. However, lesbian women would not Impress - this would be due to the trauma that they and their lifemates would face once their dragons settled into a regular mating cycle. Potentially, they face what would effectively be rape up to four times a turn, although in game nobody would really know why they did not Impress.

Bisexual women though, may Impress, but like others, this would be as a result of what their new lifemate saw in them, not who they prefer to have in their beds.

This reward is at a cost of 425 marks, and is for new personas only. 
--You *may not update or adopt an existing character with an established history to purchase this reward.
--You *may not create a new persona as an already Impressed bisexual greenrider with this reward.

*This may change in the future but is not available at this time.

http://triadweyrs.org/faq.php?fq_id=833

[Estelle]

Exciting!

So, if I understand the rules correctly, the only route to having a bisexual greenrider character (for now) is to create a new Candidate and have her Impress? Do you spend the marks when you create the persona, or when she Impresses?

Is it allowed to use this reward for an existing character if there isn't anything in their history or posts yet about their sexuality?

[Devin]

Time to start planning my next Candidate! :D

[Yvonne]

Exciting news!

[Suzee]

Exciting!

So, if I understand the rules correctly, the only route to having a bisexual greenrider character (for now) is to create a new Candidate and have her Impress? Do you spend the marks when you create the persona, or when she Impresses?

Is it allowed to use this reward for an existing character if there isn't anything in their history or posts yet about their sexuality?

1. Yes, this is a new Impression only.
2. The Marks will come out at the time of Impression
3. If you have a persona who is currently Impression age, you may use this character in this manner. 

You may not change the orientation of an existing character who is already a greenrider.

[Heather]