Loads of Hold-related Questions

[Anaria]

I've been wanting to dive more into Hold life, but I wanted to ask a few questions regarding positions at the Hold. Obviously, this is something that wasn't really discussed in depth in the books, so I would assume that it would fall to the judgement of the Council. I full anticipate this being something that needs some discussion.

It's pretty well documented that the non-crafter workers of the Hold would ultimately report to the Headwoman. But are all of the workers drudges?  Would you have a position like a kitchen maid, or a scullery maid, or would these just be jobs that were assigned to drudges? I would assume you wouldn't have the same drudge cleaning latrines as you would assisting with the food? In the past, women often had Lady's maids to assist them in getting dressed, doing their hair, etc, and men would have valets or grooms to do the same. I would assume that a Lord or Lady Holder would have a similar person - again would this just be called a "drudge" or would you actually have a position like "Lady's maid"? These positions seem too trivial to be handled by a proper crafter, but a bit "above" a drudge.

Assuming that "jobs" other than drudge would exist, I assume that the Headwoman and her Assistants probably aren't directly micromanaging every single worker for a large Hold. So I assume that there are probably jobs like "Head Maid" who is in charge of all the people that handle cleaning, for example. Heck, even if all it is are drudges, I would assume that there is likely some hierarchy and specialization - Head drudge, kitchen drudge, laundry drudge, etc.

Another question is in relation to your members of the Blood who are not Lords or Ladies. I think Pern isn't the type of society as, say, Medieval England was, where a random Princess can basically just sit around in the Castle and eat cakes for the duration of her life. What - for example - would Lady Benani's siblings be doing (outside of the few that have taken a craft)? I understand that many Blood relations are married off to other Holds, take over Minor Holds, or become Stewards, but would there be a position like a Lady in Waiting, who is more of a companion than a servant, is of a "good" family, and helps the Lady Holder with replying to correspondence, embroidery, and in general acts as a trusted confidante?

As I mentioned, all of these things are open for discussion, but I think that it would add more "depth" to the Holds than just "we have roughly 100 drudges that take care of the menial tasks". Presently,the Major Holds are beginning to get a good population of your typical "rankers" - Lords, ladies, family members, Stewards, and Headwomen. Giving a roll a bit more interesting than simply "drudge" would likely add to the roleplay and character creation of said Holds. I'm sure that it is entirely possible as well that this varies from Hold to Hold as well, depending on what the needs of the individual Hold are.

[Paula]

There are such position as "Laundry supervisor" (she would be in charge of laundry), Head Cook (rules the kitchen) that have at least been mentioned in posts.  They would report to headwoman. I rather think "drudge" is general term and often translates it to a "servant" in my mind.
Headwomen also have assistants, who would then all have their own area of expertise.
Drudges would have their own hierarchy. For instance, kitchen drudge being better than a cleaner drudge.


As for the Blood relatives, in Pernese society, they can't afford people who just sit idle, so they would be some work to do. Men would have craft or holds. For women, marrying and having children is their duty. Unmarried young woman would probably work as Lady's assistants (lot like the lady-in-waiting you referred to)or as assistant headwomen.

Well, those are my insights. Interesting subject Erin.

[Paula]

There are such position as "Laundry supervisor" (she would be in charge of laundry), Head Cook (rules the kitchen) that have at least been mentioned in posts.  They would report to headwoman. I rather think "drudge" is general term and often translates it to a "servant" in my mind.
Headwomen also have assistants, who would then all have their own area of expertise.
Drudges would have their own hierarchy. For instance, kitchen drudge being better than a cleaner drudge.


As for the Blood relatives, in Pernese society, they can't afford people who just sit idle, so they would be some work to do. Men would have craft or holds. For women, marrying and having children is their duty. Unmarried young woman would probably work as Lady's assistants (lot like the lady-in-waiting you referred to)or as assistant headwomen.

Well, those are my insights. Interesting subject Erin.

[Chelle]

Paula's right. All of the servants of the Hold are under the headwoman's supervision, but there is a hierarchy there. IE: There is a head cook that runs the kitchen (we have that as a position in Triad), an assistant headwoman who runs the laundry, etc etc.

How I see it is this:
Lady Holder=Admiral
Headwoman=Vice Admiral
Assistants=Captains
Longterm Drudges (ie: women who can fill in if assistants are sick, have been doing this for turns)=Commanders
Drudges=Enlisted folk

Lord Holder=Fleet Admiral
Minor Holders=Admirals
Steward=Vice Admiral
Understewards=Captains
Master Crafters (though autonomous, they do report/work with the steward)=Commanders
Holders=Enlisted folk, but above the drudges

You will have specialized jobs suited to the needs of the Hold. These can be held by holders and/or drudges as needs state. These will include your Ladies' maids, tithe train drivers, etc etc

Keep in mind, there are actual holders there as well who are not necessarily drudges or Blood, but they will have jobs or cotholds of their own that produce products to be used as tithe, though they will have no necessary craft training. The ladies can make homespun clothing, cook small meals for their families, do rudimentary healing, etc etc while the men can surely fix wagon wheels, maintain homes, etc etc These men can be understewards or anything else.

And yes, the Bloodfolk would be doing something. Paula's right, there will be many arranged marriages going on to get them either into other major Holdings, minor holdings, or even to Master craftsmen. This is for the good of Pern and to vary the Bloodlines. IE: check the family tree. How many turns back did you marry into our family? Only twice removed? Well we better try another this time then. Keep in mind with Blood, they always want a few around. IE: if Zathris dropped dead without a current heir, Benani's brother would be the next in line. So hed better be ready. Hed likely serve as a steward or minor holder then. Then when he was promoted, another of her brothers would take over the minor holding and so on.

All in all, though the type of positions and the deference given to everyone is up to each Hold itself. Some stewards might treat all their drudges as drudges, while some might give rewards to the longer serving or more supervisorly people. So the hierarchy is what each make of it. There would be one though, out of necessity.

I hope that helps.

[Eimi]

First of all, I would agree with the ladies that there is a "chain of command" down from the Lord Holder to the lowest drudge.  Everyone has someone who is their supervisor (except the Lord Holder) and many people have someone below them.

Let's also keep in mind that all the land and property within a Hold belong to the Main Hold, and therefore are the concern of the Lord Holder.  That includes all it's Minor Holds and Cotholds.  There are societal rules as to how he is to honor contracts and treat his holders, but everything trickles down from him.  He will grant a holder or craftsman or a drudge a cot or a bit of land with the expectation that they will pay a tithe to him either in goods, marks, or labor.  Some will work directly for the Hold (drudges, some craftsmen, Stewards, specialists and so forth), and others will independently, but again be expected to tithe back to the Hold.

Within in the Hold, you have the Lord Holder, who does have personal assistants to help him (secretaries and advisors, if you will).  Many are of his own family, but there would also be fosterlings.  The same could be said for the Lady Holder, though probably most of her helpers would be fosterlings.  Under the Lord would be the Steward, and under the Lady would be the Headwoman.  The Steward helps the Lord Holder with the management of the Hold as a business, while the Headwoman helps manage the Hold's day-to-day needs.  Under those would be assistant stewards and assistant headwomen.

From there you would probably have different departments.  Under the headwoman you would have things like kitchens, laundry, cleaning staff, child care, and so on.  Under the Steward you would have crafters, record keepers, work parties, maintainance crews, the stables, and so forth.  

Holders who do not have a craft or a special skill would probably be enfolded into work crews who would work the Holds fields, forests or whatever business the Hold is involved in.  Let's keep in mind that crafters are like college graduates.  Not everyone goes to college and not every job requires a degree.  A lot of labor can be done by someone with just general knowledge gained from experience on the job - carpenters, farmers, loggers, ditch diggers, etc.  And the Hold itself has it's own land and business ventures which needs laborers.  Not all the land has been given to Holders to live on.

Each family must contribute their fair share to the Hold.  Many women spend their time taking care of the home and children while their husband labors for the Hold and the family.  Often that is enough.  But perhaps it isn't.  Maybe the husband is injured, ill, dead or the woman is unmarried.  She would be expected to help contribute to the family's responsibility to the Hold.  Having daughters and sons of a certain age would probably increase the family's responsibility to the Hold.  Therefore, wives and children out of harper classes may also join the labor force. There is also something to be said for some women who just want to work, either to increase their family's personal wealth, or because they like to work and have ambitions of their own.

I think it would be fair to term those who are general laborers under the Headwoman as "drudges", whether they are "kitchen drudges", "laundry drudges", or "cleaning drudges" and someone might move between them depending on where they need someone.  Those who work under the Steward would probably be more often referred to by the "division" they're in - field hand, stable hand, carpenter, etc.

As I said as far as crafters, some would work directly for the Hold, putting all or most their labor towards the Hold's business as overseers, or as specialists (such as harpers and healers, ceramics makers, technicians).  Other crafters might request land or work space from the Hold and work for themselves, but would be expected to tithe back to the Hold.  A blacksmith might do most of his business with independent farmers and crafters, for example, but would be required to tithe a share of his goods or the marks he earned back to the Hold.

People of the Blood would have to give their fair share as well, though their jobs would be determined depending on how closely tied they are to a ruling line.  If it's so far in the past it's just a rumor, for example, they would probably join the general work force, or maybe as high as a Steward.  Those who are tied directly to the Bloodline would often work closely with the Lord Holder or Steward, or often be granted Minor Holds, which operate exactly like a larger Hold but have the responsibility of tithing back to the Main Hold.  Young men and women would be fostered out to other Holds to practice Hold management by assisting another Lord Holder or Lady Holder.  And both would be making connections that could either develop into business relations or marriage opportunities.

Anyway, a lot of information there, but that's how I see a Hold working.  There would be several different positions that are not listed specifically just because there are SO MANY!  That's why we have the "job" portion of a persona sheet so you can specify what it is exactly that your persona does to contribute to their home.  If you have a job in mind, but are not sure what to call it, ask the PA team or Council.  We can help you come up with the right description.

[Anaria]

Thanks Eimi!

Part of this came from confusion over what to call what it is Lyranel did initially. Part of it comes from when I want random NPCs for her to interact with, it kinda gets boring for them all to just be a random "drudge." The remainder came from me wondering how the Headwoman would supervise everyone without blowing her brains out. It's super awesome that the Holds are getting busy enough to need this information :-)


Thanks again for the useful information *runs off to plot*

[Suzee]

What great replies Ladies. This subject is obviously of interest and might warrant an article on the Triad site itself in the FAQ section. It is a huge subject just from the scope of information. We obviously have a great deal of canon material to draw from for the way Weyr's are run but not as much exists for the Holds.

Great stuff in this thread!

[Anaria]

What great replies Ladies. This subject is obviously of interest and might warrant an article on the Triad site itself in the FAQ section. It is a huge subject just from the scope of information. We obviously have a great deal of canon material to draw from for the way Weyr's are run but not as much exists for the Holds.

Great stuff in this thread!

I'd like to second that this info should be in the FAQ. It'd be a great reference when applying for Hold sonas.