Thinking about a dog

[Cali]

So we've been thinking about getting a dog for the family.  But I've only ever had outside dogs as a kid/teenager, and this would be a mostly inside dog as we don't have a fenced backyard (and don't want one, one of the reasons we bought this house was it was a corner lot with neighbors who also didn't have fences and all the kids could run amuk), but we go on daily walks so it'd get excercise.  I'm a little bit nervous since I've never had an inside dog and all the reading I've been doing mentions things to do that must be obvious to everyone whose ever had an inside dog so therefore there isn't much explaination.  So for all you people with inside dogs, maybe a bit of remedial help?  

1. What is crate training?  It seems like you train the dog to go to the bathroom in it's crate/doghouse, but that seems odd to me, wouldn't it step in it or lay in it or something?  
2. What is house trained?  Is that where it doesn't go to the bathroom inside the house or only goes on pads or what?  How do you know when your dog needs to go?  If you take it outside, how long does it take for the dog to go?  Which leads to #3.
3. How do you keep your yard clean when your dog goes outside?  When I say outside dogs, I mean outside dogs.  We lived in the country and the dogs had about a 5 mile backyard, they hardly ever pooped in our play yard.  I saw a neighbor out once with this little scooper thing but that doesn't seem like it would work well, only smear it and get the majority.  
4. Shedding, is there any way around it?  Not stopping the dog from doing it really, but any tips on how to not let it ruin your house?  
5. Chewing on furniture, I've seen sprays in the grocery store, does that really work or is it a gimmik?
6. Barking.  Do inside dogs do it much or is it an outisde dog thing?  My dogs did it all the time but they were always chasing away bobcats and coyotes or somesuch.  
7.  Do inside dogs run away when you open the door?  My husband said he had inside dogs when he was a kid but that they all ran away because as soon as you opened the door they'd squeeze out.  I think his parents were horrible pet people but he's really worried about the kids being upset because the dog runs away.  
8.  Spraying... this just sounds gross.  The websites say females dont do it as much as males and if you neuter them it's not as bad.  Do dogs really just walk around the house peeing on everything?  


I know, this all seems so silly to people probably, but like I said, all the pet websites make it sound like you should already know all this stuff. :(

Oh and we're thinking of maybe a Beagle since they're small (and won't scare my 2 yr old), have short hair, and are good with kids.  I really want a Lab or a Golden Retriever (we always had Labs growing up), but they're big dogs who need lots of running room.

[Jane]

Firstly, I don't have dogs, or inside dogs, but I am addicted to the Pets and Animals part of the TradeMe messageboard, so that's as good as knowing.

Crate training is (apparently) an essential for your family and for the dog.  It's a place where you can put the dog and he can know for sure that he'll be safe.  He can go there himself, too, when he needs to get away from you.

As far as I know, dogs don't ever use the crate for toileting.  And as I understand it crate training is one of the methods used to toilet train dogs.  The crate is supposed to be large enough for the dog to stand up in, but not enough for him to make a corner to toilet in and sleep elsewhere.  Crates are also good when you want to travel with your dog, as you just fold up the crate and take it along.  The dog always has their own familiar place with them and will probably sleep better than you will.

A P&A messageboarder usually has her crates on an enclosed porch, but we've just had Guy Fawkes (fireworks) and she brought them all inside.  Here's a picture - http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver ... 8_full.jpg

The favourite site of my fellow P&A messageboarders is http://www.dogstardaily.com/

I hope this helps.

[Cali]

Huh, well you see, I'm so lost it's not even funny.  So it's got to be small enough so that they _can't_ go to the bathroom, I get it.  See when they said it's important to crate train for potty training I just figured they were supposed to go to the bathroom in their crate!  You've been a big help already Jane because I was looking at crates on craigslist (I'm thinking maybe a USA equivalent of your tradezone thingy) and I was going to get a big one so they would have room to do their business and also sit.  *hugs*

[Jane]

Ahh, now I understand the questions about house training!

Yes, a house trained dog is the equivalent to a toilet trained kid (do you call it potty trained?).  They'll hold on until you can take them outside.  If you get a puppy you'll have to do that training. (Just like with kids!)  It can be very intensive training, by all accounts.  (Some 'toy' breeds of dogs aren't so easy to train in this area.)

Because the crate is their den, their bed and their favourite safe spot, they certainly won't go in there.

You know your dog will need to go by certain behaviours - scratching at the door, etc - but these are not very clear with puppies and you have to keep a closer eye on them (circling is a classic one) and also puppies don't think ahead.  They wanna go NOW!  (Sooooo like kids, huh?)

You can train your dog to go just in one corner of your yard, or perhaps in one garden area where the kids don't run.  Yes, scooping up the lumpy bits and burying them is a good idea.

There's a lot of training with puppies so if you think you might not have the time for that perhaps an adult dog would be a good option.  (Will probably still need some training to fit in with your family, but at the toilet training should be done.)

From a recent thread on beagles on the P&A messageboard beagles seem to be the biggest escape artists in creation so you might want to do a little more research on the breed.

[Cali]

I was thinking about an older dog too since I can't even get my daughter to potty train!  There are adoption houses in my area where people take in shelter dogs and train them and care for them until they can be adopted (like foster care I guess) and I was thinking about getting one of those since they'd already be trained.  It'd be an inside only dog that goes out with a leash since we don't have a fenced yard so I'm not horribly worried about the escape artist thing as long as they don't bolt for the door every time it's opened.  The one corner spot is a good suggestion, noone ever goes into our side yard, maybe I'll use that area, that way if I don't get it all at least the kids won't go over and get in it.

[Jane]

The adoption house sounds like a great idea.  If so, you won't need to worry about the breed so much, because one of the main reasons you choose a certain breed is so you can predict the size, temperament and behaviour of the adult dog when buying a puppy.

If you're getting an adult dog all of those things are pretty much self-evident, and the people at the adoption house can help you by answering questions about the things that aren't so easy to see at a glance.  (Like shedding, behaviour with kids and men, etc.)

I assume they're as good in the US as they are in NZ, in that they're not after a quick adoption, they really are looking for the best situation for each individual dog and so will be interested in fitting the dog to your family and your family to the dog.

Kaysea has dogs, btw.  You know, in case you wanted advice from somebody who has actually owned a dog! :laughing5:

[Cali]

I think they're _paranoid_ about finding the right homes!  I just got off the phone with a nut job.  I called about a cute Corgi/Lab mix who looked like a lab only had tiny corgi legs.  The discription said she was nice, sweet, great with kids.  When I talk to her about seeing the dog at their showing tomorrow (they go to petstores on weekends to show off their dogs for adoption) and she starts talking about how this dog is very attached to her and she only wants to let me have the dog if the dog wants to go with me and how she's got to make sure we're a right fit.  If she doesn't want to get rid of the dog then she needs to take it off the listings.  Of course a dog isn't going to want to go with a stranger if it's foster moms right there!  I'm not going to drive an hour into northeast kansas city to look at a dog that this lady doesn't even want to get rid of!  What does she want this dog to do, jump into my arms?

*sigh*

[Jane]

I just got off the phone with a nut job.

Well, yes.  Did I forget to mention that there are a lot of fruit loops in the P&A messageboard?

And apparently I fit right in.  :geek:

But there's no rush for the dog, is there?  You can try another adoption place that isn't run by somebody quite as nutty ...

[Amanda N]

Cali, I applaud you for going for an older dog!  If we ever get a dog, that's what I plan on doing!

At the moment...we have five cats.

[Cali]

No, there isn't a hurry, but this is just the latest in a long line of nuts.  I've actually been looking around for about a week, one lady I talked to about a beagle asked if I had a fenced yard.  I said no, it's going to be a house dog that we take on walks, our yard isn't fenced.  She starts screaming that we'll have to fence in our yard since it's a beagle.  I explained that we didn't want to fence in the yard and it would get plenty of outside time on a leash.  She then repeated that we _have_ to fence in our yard.  I then hung up.

This other place had about a 10 page questionaire you had to fill out including references from a vet and people who know you take care of your pets.  This other place required an in home inspection to make sure your house is dog ready... what does that even mean???  Another lady told me the dog had to sleep on the bed... I informed her that the dog would sleep in the garage and she all but screamed at me too, she said it gets cold in garages and it was out of the question, she said that if we made up a toddler bed next to ours that the dog might be fooled into sleeping on it if we insisted that it couldn't sleep with us....

I'm telling you, they are all crazy!

I'm this close to just buying a puppy from a puppy mill  

[Clancey]

You friendly neighborhood part time Vet Tech would love to help you out Cali
Jane answered some of these already, but if you have any more questions, holler!  I answered the rest.  Note: alot of this is stuff we tell first time pet owners, so forgive me if it seems very remedial even though I know you had dogs as a kid.  

1. What is crate training? It seems like you train the dog to go to the bathroom in it's crate/doghouse, but that seems odd to me, wouldn't it step in it or lay in it or something?

-- Jane answered this one for you pretty well, Cali, but crate training is really a nice thing to do if you can.   If you find that your dog is still going to the bathroom in the crate, make it smaller by putting in a piece of cardboard or something, to close down the room.  it should be comfortable but definitely NOT big enough for the dog to go the bathroom in a corner and still be able to not lay in it.

2. What is house trained? Is that where it doesn't go to the bathroom inside the house or only goes on pads or what? How do you know when your dog needs to go? If you take it outside, how long does it take for the dog to go? Which leads to #3.

--- AGain Jane answered this one for you.  You can use puppy pads to train them to go inside the house, but I don't recommend it.  It inevitably makes them confused .. they look at their owner and go "Do I go in the house, or do I go outside? Make up our mind, lady!"
-- Some people train their dogs to ring bells on the door handle to go outside.  Its quite slick.  You hang bells low enough, from the doorknob, that the dog can touch with their nose.  Bells are easy to hear and not as annoying as scratching on the door or barking.  
--How long it takes to go can vary.  Some dogs (especially in the morning) will go right away when you go outside.   Some get distracted by toys or leaves or neighbors and can take a while.   The important thing with a puppy is to take them out 30 min to an hour after they eat.  It helps them NOT make mistakes  An older, already potty trained dog will not need to go out as often.   We call it housebreaking in the US, Jane, or potty training LOL.  Most adult dogs around 2 or older can hold it about 10 hrs.  More is asking kind of alot, but they will do it for you.

3. How do you keep your yard clean when your dog goes outside? When I say outside dogs, I mean outside dogs. We lived in the country and the dogs had about a 5 mile backyard, they hardly ever pooped in our play yard. I saw a neighbor out once with this little scooper thing but that doesn't seem like it would work well, only smear it and get the majority.

---- Unfortunately, there isn't any way but the manual way, Cali.  Lots of people take plastic bags outside with them and they scoop up the poop with their hand inside the bag and then flip it and tie it shut. No touching the poop then.  They make lots of cool contraptions to help with this job, though, at your neighborhood PetSmart.  

4. Shedding, is there any way around it? Not stopping the dog from doing it really, but any tips on how to not let it ruin your house?

--- Not really.  Vacuum about every other day and steady grooming (daily) will help.  Plus, short haired dogs will shed a bit less, but most any dog comes with hair and they shed their coats at least once a year (summer).   They do make grooming tools called "deshedding combs"  and those pull out alot of loose hair.  Daily brushing will help immensely, and is also very good for your dog.  

5. Chewing on furniture, I've seen sprays in the grocery store, does that really work or is it a gimmik?

--Some of them work really well.  My recommendation is to buy it at the petstore though.  The selection is infinitely better and the chances are higher it will work.  Bitter Apple spray works decently, but you can make your own home remedies too.  We suggest to our clients tobasco sauce or vinegar (if the furniture can handle either one of those) is also a good idea.  The important thing is to have something that tastes absolutely terrible to them.   One thing to note:  good, solid obedience training and proper "pack leadership" in your house will help with this as well because the dog simply won't do what he isn't supposed to do.

6. Barking. Do inside dogs do it much or is it an outisde dog thing? My dogs did it all the time but they were always chasing away bobcats and coyotes or somesuch.

--- No way to tell! Some breeds are yappy, but even within that breed, you can have quiet ones.  Depends  But yes, some dogs do bark.  Like number 5 though, good solid obedience and proper leadership will help with this as well.  You can teach them when its okay to bark, and when its not.  

7. Do inside dogs run away when you open the door? My husband said he had inside dogs when he was a kid but that they all ran away because as soon as you opened the door they'd squeeze out. I think his parents were horrible pet people but he's really worried about the kids being upset because the dog runs away.

--Really, the answer to this is like number 5.  Inside dogs (or outside dogs) will do what you train them to do.  If you let them run away when you open the door, they will assume that is what they are supposed to do  But its not their natural, automatic response.  Especially with lots of exercise.

8. Spraying... this just sounds gross. The websites say females dont do it as much as males and if you neuter them it's not as bad. Do dogs really just walk around the house peeing on everything?

--- Yes, if they are not spayed or neutered.   Its a natural instinct called "marking".  Their urine names that area their territory.   But you MUST spay or neuter your pet if you are not breeding them.   Medically and ethically, there is really no other choice.   That does help, and males are definitely worse, but a properly trained dog should not do this.  If you adopt from a shelter, this should not be a problem.  All their dogs are either already fixed, or its part of the deal for you to have it done.  

General ideas and suggestions:

I would recommed a dog no larger than 30 or 40 pounds for an inside dog.   There are several breeds that fit nice into that weight range, like beagles or cavalier king spaniels (i like those better than cocker spaniels).  

Be wary of truly small dogs like chihuahuas or yorkies.  They are prone to dental disease, but are very cute They also tend to be just a touch more yappy.  Like any breed, though, there will be exceptions.  Just a consideration.  

Do NOT  - I repeat - do NOT adopt any kind of terrier for your first dog.  Terriers need extreme training and are also very very active.   They make great dogs for people who have time and energy because they are very smart and very loyal, but they will run your house if you let them.  

Floppy ears tend to be prone to ear infections, though again, that is certainly not an absolute.  

I subscribe to the Cesar Millan way of training - Exercise, Discipline, Affection.   That means you walk every day, every person in your house is the boss of the dog, and the dog gets affection often but when appropriate.  Dogs are not people, though training them can be very similar to raising children.   Treat them like dogs, and you'll be great

There are lots of tips and tricks on training you should be able to find online, and I will see if I can find some dog breeds for you.  

Try the local animal shelter if you go with an adult dog.   An adult dog is a great idea for your first time, plus it will help you  They have no-kill shelters in lots of places and thats where I would recommend you go, or else a Rescue operation.  Generally, the rescue outfits and local animal shelters are not TOO nutty LOL

Breeders, on the other hand, are nutty.   Puppy mills should all be burned to the ground, but if you do go there, make sure you take him right to the vet to make sure he's healthy.  

[Cali]

*trample hugs* for Clancey!  Thanks for the info, you know I'll be hitting you up with all my questions now. :D

First off, I was making a bad joke about the puppy mills.  I would never go to one.  On all these rescue sites I've been looking at they've been shoving the evils of mills down everyone's throats on every page and I was just joking about how I want to tell them that if they won't give me their dog that nobody else seems to want then I'd just go to one of their satan mills.  

I am trying to be very specific on what dog we want after thinking about our house, family, and daily life.  And that's what's making this such a chore, we need the perfect fit.  It's funny you should mention no to terriers, my husband is the same way.  His parent's dog was a terrier and it was a nightmare.  He doesn't even want a terrier mix.
What we need:
Good with kids (2 1/2 and 8 yr old)
20-40 lbs (not to big so as to knock my daughter over, not to small for my daughter to hug to death)
no poodles, terriers, or any breed with long hair (mostly personal preferences here)
already housetrained (I don't have a consistant enough schedule or the confidence to do this my first time)
at least 2 years old (see housetrained above, plus then we'll know how big they get and what their behavior is like)
an easygoing dog (high strung jumper, chewer, all night barkers need not apply)
an inside dog (we'll give them 30min-1hr walks every day because we're walkers, plus time outside with the kids)
a not spoiled rotten dog (no toddler beds for the dog, nor it's own bedroom)

So see, we have very specific needs and can wait for the perfect dog... I'd just like to be the one to determine if the dog is a fit for us, not some crazy lady over the phone.

The only time constraint we have is that I'd like to find one and get it settled in before the christmas season just so it's not trying to adjust to the home when we've got all the christmas season craziness.  Unless the right dog shows up in the next few days I might just quit looking until January.  Like I said, we're in no hurry.  :tongue:

[Clancey]

you're welcome Cali!  I'll dig up some more info for you in the next couple days, but you're doing it exactly right - getting him settled before the Holidays, or else waiting until January  

::must go copost before she is yelled at!:::

[Paula]

We had Chavalier King Charles spaniel when it was kid. I can recommend it to be a child friendly, cute and adorable. There were few drawbacks of course: It was totally airhead, it barked all black dogs or people wearing black clothes, even if weighed 10 kg it could pull a child after him (especially in winter ice) and it had heart problems. Heart problems are usual with the breed. Poodles don't shed much by the way, but they need grooming.

[Cali]

I got shot down by another rescue agency.  They said I had to have a fenced in back yard :(  Don't these people realize this dog is going to be an INSIDE dog!