A New Process - Face Claims

[Suzee]

We have quite a few people basing persona on a celebrity now so the Council thought it might be important to work out a 'face claim' system so we can avoid duplication. For now we're just gathering information and later there will be a FAQ regarding it on the site. 

• If you'd like to make a 'face claim' you don't see listed below, please post your request like this:   Lastname, Firstname - Persona.
• Don't worry if there is already some duplication as these will be 'grandfathered' into permissions
• Please contribute your thoughts about the rules but we're thinking of phrasing it something like this:

=====

Some members may base a persona's appearance on a celebrity, or choose a celebrity as their "face claim". Triad is putting some rules in place about this process, with the goal of preserving uniqueness of appearance. Note that these rules are in place for new personas, while older ones will be grandfathered in.

The celebrity I want is already in use! What can I do?

• Change to a different celebrity.
• Talk to the member who already claims the celebrity and see if they will grant permission. Keep in mind they do not have to.
• Unofficially use that celebrity as a basis for the persona's text description, but you cannot register them with an official face claim.

Is this rule only for pictures?

This rule may seem centered around pictures, but it also applies to the official Face Claim thread. You can still register a celebrity as an official Face Claim, even if you don't have a suitably modified picture of them for the site.

What happens when I leave Triad?

When you leave the club, your reserved celebrities may be opened up for other members to use. This would happen in the following cases:

• If you leave the club and have fewer than 40 posts when you leave
• If you fail to meet reqs or are otherwise removed due to inactivity (no matter how many posts you had)

Note that this is not a guarantee that removal will occur, only a forewarning that it might.

The following are celebrities who have already been claimed by other members, or have been played by prior members and still have a place in our hearts: (Working list below)

Males (Alphabetical Order by last name)

Bennett, Manu - L'airev
Bloom, Orlando - Thayde
Boreanaz, David - Z'an
Brolin, Josh - W'ser
Cage, Nicholas - K'sedel
Carell, Steve - Clovente
Christiansen, Hayden - D'arvn
Cire, Mik - R'taran
Cooper, Bradley - Demir
Coster-Waldua, Nikolaj - R'axe
Crawford, Chace - K'ale
Dane, Eric - G'nir
Darville, Eka - A'dryn
DiCaprio, Leonardo - J'ackt
Dornan, Jamie- D'kere
Douglas, Michael (Younger) - Corowal
Downey, Robert Jr.  - Vestian
Duchovny, David  - Crolarin
Eggold, Ryan - D'shiel
Faasbender, Michael - Gautrek
Franco, James- E'zar
Fox, Matthew- Endarin
Fillion, Nathan - Naton
Gao, Godfrey - Tyselin
Gallner, Kyle - Bortem
Gandy, David - J'darin
Garfield, Andrew - L'cor
Garrett, Leif (young) - Lokkun
Gyllenhal, Jake - R'enh
Harrington, Kit - Ranar
Hemsworth, Chris - Reven
Hemsworth, Liam - Coran
Hoechlin, Tyler - Eirock
Holloway, Josh - N'vanik
Hiddleston, Tom - Bryvin
Heughan, Sam - D'aon
Jackman, Hugh (long hair version) - K'lvin
Jogia, Avan - Felnix
Kallio, Veeti - U'das
Keith, Toby - Kobias
Kitch, Taylor - Aluka
Kwanten, Ryan - K'mai
Langano, Stephano - N'mor
Law, Jude - C'rin
McDonough, Neal - Karhal
Madden, Richard - D'kere
Marsters, James - D'hol & M'adin (father/son)
Merriman, Ryan - Z'ku
Metcalf, Jesse - N'call
Moore, Shemar - V'kellyn
Neil, Sam - Famell
Nordin, Reino - Im're
Owen, Clive - K'deren
Pasqualino, Luke - G'wen
Posey, Tyler, D'ren
Quaid, Dennis - Royan
Roshan, Hrithik - D'ale
Ryhaner, Jaakko - Eilomar
Selleck, Tom - Y'gel
Sewell, Rufus - Sh'lua
Sheen, Michael - Wirnan
Skarsgård, Alexander - K'yne
Stapleton, Sullivan - Sharev
Welling, Tom - T'nom
Winger, Kip - L'exan.

Females
Anden, Mini - Benani
Argon, Diana - Aslvor
Bacall, Lauren - Zelanka
Bjorlin, Nadia - Tavia
Bleddel, Alexis - Cosani
Bryant, Kaylee - Ailda
Chopra, Priyanka - Nohria
Christie, Gwendoline - Uetia
Clark, Emilia (Daenerys Targaryen) - Rethisa
Cruz, Penelope - Yanley
Day, Felicia - Bahji
Deschanel, Zooey - Cortana
Dobrev, Nina - Aynia
Fox, Megan - Kapera
Gavankar, Janina - Runnfreya
Gillan, Karen - Sophque
Goodwin, Ginnifer - Cardella
Holland, Willa - Shanel
Holmes, Katie (short hair version) - Jeyme
Holmes, Katie - Sasima
Howard, Bryce Dallas - Berenziah
Hunter, Holly - Cyadis
Kerr, Miranda - Arippa, Faldrimme (twins)
Kreuk, Kristin  - Aishara
Landau, Juliette - Yriadha
Lee, Claudia - Genna
Leick, Hudson (as Callisto) - Judassa
Lima, Adriana - Chaysea
Marceau, Sophie - Humari
McAdams, Rachel - Loella
McGrath, Katie - Danrina
Messing, Debra - Ciara
Moore, Julianne - Jylanya
Osment, Emily - Gelira
Paltrow, Gwenneth - Rorela
Pannitierre, Hayden - Xeladrie
Portman, Natalie (long hair version) - Devyn
Quinn, Molly - Pierka & Lanniya (related-&by permission)
Rai, Aishwarya - Talryne
Ramos, Nathalia - Elona
Ryder, Winona (young) - Aileyan
Schiffer, Claudia - Jaffra
Seyfried, Amanda - Felyna
Stone, Emma - Oria
Swanepoel, Candice - Tovessah
Traue, Antje - Jayzine
Tyler, Liv - Saibra
Yoshitaka, Yuriko - Milga
Zeta-Jones, Catherine - Briata
Zeta-Jones, Catherine (Zorro) - Delynn

[Suzee]

Cooper, Bradley - Demir
Christiansen, Hayden - D'arvn
McAdams, Rachel - Loella
Roshan, Hrithik - D'ale

[Jane]

While we recognize not all our members feel the need to base their Persona either wholly or in part on a celebrity we do see that many wish to.  Therefore we recognize the need to be sure each persona is unique.

Surely this is only about pictures and not really about who you base the appearance of your persona on.  Even if you got ten of us to write a persona sheet based on the same celebrity I think somebody reading the persona sheets would be (a) hard pressed to identify the celebrity and (b) lucky to even pick that they were the same celebrity if they came across the sheets scattered in amongst a hundred others.  And I certainly don't think that somebody using a picture of John Simm, for instance, should be able to prevent me reviving Jh'slaen and F'naren, my former characters whose physical description was based on that actor's appearance - and again, how would a persona approver know who I was basing their appearance on if there was no picture?  Now, if you want to stop two people using photos of John Sim that's another story.

So, I really feel that this should be worded more about pictures than personas:

While we recognize not all our members feel the need use celebrity-based persona pictures on the site or forum, we do see that many wish to.  Therefore we recognize the need to be sure that using pictures of any given celebrity is reserved for only one persona currently active in the club.

If you leave the club and have fewer than 40 posts when you leave, or if you fail to meet reqs or are otherwise removed due to inactivity (no matter how many posts you had), your character's face claim may be made available for future members.

Forty posts with the persona who has the claimed celebrity or 40 total?

The wording might need to be changed to indicate that failing to meet requirements AND having the persona removed causes the face claim to lapse.  Just failing to meet requirements might wipe out a few face claims on any given month.

And I'm not sure that somebody with 41 posts who abruptly leaves but announces they are going should get to keep their persona's face claim when somebody with possibly 300+ posts with their persona who drifts away from the club loses theirs.

[Leigh]

Kitch, Taylor - Aluka
Garrett, Leif (young) - Lokkun

[Ames]

Oh man, that means I actually have to try and remember who all the people were in my pictures! LOL....might be harder for me to do as I'm terrible at remembering stuff like this! LOL

[Suzee]

While we recognize not all our members feel the need to base their Persona either wholly or in part on a celebrity we do see that many wish to.  Therefore we recognize the need to be sure each persona is unique.

Surely this is only about pictures and not really about who you base the appearance of your persona on.  Even if you got ten of us to write a persona sheet based on the same celebrity I think somebody reading the persona sheets would be (a) hard pressed to identify the celebrity and (b) lucky to even pick that they were the same celebrity if they came across the sheets scattered in amongst a hundred others.  And I certainly don't think that somebody using a picture of John Simm, for instance, should be able to prevent me reviving Jh'slaen and F'naren, my former characters whose physical description was based on that actor's appearance - and again, how would a persona approver know who I was basing their appearance on if there was no picture?  Now, if you want to stop two people using photos of John Sim that's another story.

So, I really feel that this should be worded more about pictures than personas:

While we recognize not all our members feel the need use celebrity-based persona pictures on the site or forum, we do see that many wish to.  Therefore we recognize the need to be sure that using pictures of any given celebrity is reserved for only one persona currently active in the club.

If you leave the club and have fewer than 40 posts when you leave, or if you fail to meet reqs or are otherwise removed due to inactivity (no matter how many posts you had), your character's face claim may be made available for future members.

Forty posts with the persona who has the claimed celebrity or 40 total?

The wording might need to be changed to indicate that failing to meet requirements AND having the persona removed causes the face claim to lapse.  Just failing to meet requirements might wipe out a few face claims on any given month.

And I'm not sure that somebody with 41 posts who abruptly leaves but announces they are going should get to keep their persona's face claim when somebody with possibly 300+ posts with their persona who drifts away from the club loses theirs.

These are some great points and I have some thoughts:

• this really isn't about just a picture. Perhaps as a member I have the picture of Y'gel as Tom Selleck but I don't have a picture of him to use. I wouldn't want to be precluded from making the claim until I can put up a picture. I can face claim him whether or not I have a picture to put up.
• As for the previous persona sheets. I believe we covered that in saying that any personas already created were grandfathered in so the rule wouldn't apply other than as a courtesy to another member.
• I for one don't like hard and fast rules which is one reason we phrased the 40 post rule with the word MAY. That give us the leeway to make exceptions based on the scenarios at the time the member exits.  The 40 post rule is intended to be total posts by the member not limited to any specific persona.

I hope this makes sense.

[Paula]

Penelope Cruz - Yanley
Wiona Ryder (young) - Aileyan

...and how about national celebrities (Finns) you other might not recognize?

[Suzee]

...and how about national celebrities (Finns) you other might not recognize?

Absolutely!! There is no monopoly on American, British, Australian, face claims.

[Anika]

Hoechlin, Tyler - Eirock
Fassbender, Michael

Just FYI, this will fall under grandfathered - dual claimed - I guess since her pic is already up (Amanda maybe they are related, *grins*)

Zeta-Jones, Catherine - Delynn

[Jane]

... this really isn't about just a picture. Perhaps as a member I have the picture of Y'gel as Tom Selleck but I don't have a picture of him to use. I wouldn't want to be precluded from making the claim until I can put up a picture. I can face claim him whether or not I have a picture to put up.

[my emphasis]

Your example seems to be entirely about a picture.  You are face claiming the right to use a picture of said celebrity, not face claiming the written description of him or in any way preventing another writer basing their character on him - how would you police that anyway?

As I see it the only concern is about pictures.  The draft FAQ should say that.

[Heather]

I think you should be able to face claim the same celebrity IF they are portraying different roles. Since most celebrities are actors/actresses they can sometimes look very different. For example: Katie Holmes from Dawson's Creek (LINK) looks very different from this picture of Katie Holmes (LINK)

Even Hugh Jackman, who has looked all shades of different in different roles. Or maybe you want to use a childhood picture of Reese Witherspoon and someone else wants to use a picture of her as an adult. And for another example Emilia Clark who looks vastly different as Daenrys Targaryen than she does in real life.  I think it would be silly to say "I own every picture of this celebrity for my persona." I think as long as the picture of your persona looks significantly different from the other used then... why not?

(Also, I emailed in a request to the webbies email addy several months ago (January) and was never responded to about putting up the pictures I requested .)

Bloom, Orlando - Thayde
Clark, Emilia (Daenerys Targaryen) - Rethisa
Coster-Waldua, Nikolaj - R'axe
Hemsworth, Chris - Reven
Hemsworth, Liam - Coran
Holmes, Katie (short hair version) - Jeyme
Jackman, Hugh (long hair version) - K'lvin
Leick, Hudson (as Callisto) - Judassa
Portman, Natalie (long hair version) - Devyn

[Leigh]

No wonder Saibra and Yanley are so gorgeous. Liv Tyler and Penelope Cruz are hot stuff.

[Suzee]

Hoechlin, Tyler - Eirock
Fassbender, Michael

Just FYI, this will fall under grandfathered - dual claimed - I guess since her pic is already up (Amanda maybe they are related, *grins*)

Zeta-Jones, Catherine - Delynn

You didn't mention who Michael Fassbender represents

[Suzee]

... this really isn't about just a picture. Perhaps as a member I have the picture of Y'gel as Tom Selleck but I don't have a picture of him to use. I wouldn't want to be precluded from making the claim until I can put up a picture. I can face claim him whether or not I have a picture to put up.

[my emphasis]

Your example seems to be entirely about a picture.  You are face claiming the right to use a picture of said celebrity, not face claiming the written description of him or in any way preventing another writer basing their character on him - how would you police that anyway?

As I see it the only concern is about pictures.  The draft FAQ should say that.

I guess what I'm shooting for is using that celebrity (going forward) as a model for your persona (whether or not you are using a picture of them) should involve consultation with another member who has previously claimed that same model/celebrity.

I kind of see it as movie casting... Y'gel - Played By Tom Selleck, if that makes sense.

Therefore, limiting the FAQ to pictures only is not what we had intended. However, I do see your point about the description and the inability to police that feature.  Indeed a new member could decide to base their persona on Tom Selleck or Michael Fassbender or whoever they decide embodies the person they would cast in the role.  That's all a part of Role Play and the joy of creating their characterization.

Since this is still in infancy and we're trying to see beyond what's happening today to what will happen when/if a movie about Pern is actually made, it can be difficult to think of all the angles.  Ultimately I'd like to put a field on the persona form so a member may make their face claim or "Played By" claim.  But then do we apply a rule in the database that says that field must be unique? Like we do for Persona Names and Dragon Names and several other things. (that's just one of the problems.)

So I really do see your point about picture... but don't want to paint us into a corner.

(Also, I emailed in a request to the webbies email addy several months ago (January) and was never responded to about putting up the pictures I requested .)

Yup, I have them. I just haven't had the time to do it. It does take quite a bit of effort to put up a seemingly simple picture. I'll put up an FAQ at some point of exactly what is needed to defray some of the work. Hopefully, when we someday develop a new site (/sigh) we'll be able to use newer technology to make this an easy process.

This site was developed almost 15 years ago... that is a dinosaur in web technology. Even though it was FABULOUSLY written!  Things just get old... ya know?

[Suzee]

I think you should be able to face claim the same celebrity IF they are portraying different roles. Since most celebrities are actors/actresses they can sometimes look very different. For example: Katie Holmes from Dawson's Creek (LINK) looks very different from this picture of Katie Holmes (LINK)

Just one comment here if I may.  Our intent was to say that in the FUTURE anyone wanting to use Katie Holmes should talk to you about it since you have a vested interest.

Sasima is already grandfathered in to use Katie Holmes with a picture that looks different from even the two you show.  But anyone else wanting to claim her should ask first. Ultimately we're trying to make sure we're keeping our persona's unique. It is pretty true that people on Earth don't look exactly the same unless they're twins or triplets. Hopefully, we can make it that way on Pern as well.