Okay, so for a lot of you, this may not be something you'd pay attention to, but has anyone heard about the hullabaloo over homeschooling in California? Or rather, over the court Judge's decision on it?
No, I haven't heard the news (mostly because I don't watch the news). What is California ruling?
Quote from: "Stasha"No, I haven't heard the news (mostly because I don't watch the news). What is California ruling?
Here's an article about it:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... DVF0F1.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/07/MNJDVF0F1.DTL)
In other words, parents could face criminal charges for homeschooling their children.
Looks like there's an appeal that's going to go through. I hope it's reversed. I don't live there, but it would be a big blow to homeschoolers.
It makes sense why they're doing it, but the problem is the idea is not perfect. There are plenty of parents out there that can home school their child through elementary and do a better job than the teachers. I think they should enact a law than governs how home schooling should be done, not just remove it from parents that are just as qualified, even without a teaching degree.
That sounds ridiculous. Homeschooling should always be an option, especially for kids who the traditional system can't take care of like special needs kids or gifted kids when there is no gifted program. Some people might say private school works for that, but if you can't afford it and you have a non-traditional child, you need to have options.
I don't have a college degree, but does that mean I'm not qualified to teach my children? I don't think so, but evidently that California judge does.
In homeschooling, part of what you do isn't just teach your children, you teach them out to teach themselves.
I'm all for homeschooling. But I think that there should also be a national test or standard to say "This is the minimum of what a child should know by the time they're finished with this grade", and that the children are tested every year on it. The parents can teach them as they see fit, and as long as they keep up or surppass the other kids' their age level, they should be allowed to school at home. and special provisions should be made for special needs.
The problem with homeschooling right now is that there is no standard. My younger brothers had to be homeschooled for a year because they were living in a town where even the high school pricinple was homeschooling since the schools were so poorly funded. When my parents decided to put them back into public school, they both lost a year because there were no credits to transfer in.
The thing that gets me is that there is no national standard for PUBLIC schools either. When I was in high school I lived in Nevada for a year. Their school went August to May. Early April my family went back to Washington (where school goes September to June), and I still had one month of classes left, so I had to go back to school. But when we tried to enroll me in a public high school, the classes didn't match up! I hadn't been taking the classes other sophmores were supposed to have taken. And even the classes that DID match up, like biology and whatnot, had covered everything in a different order, so I would have been lost for two months trying to catch up to where THEY were. Luckily there was a contract based school that I could go to and finish out the year in a month by basically studying on my own. But it really did convince me that there needs to be at least SOME national standards... THough don't get me started on No Child Left Behind :P
Don't get me started on No Child Left Behind either.
Eimi, Texas has a standard. If you go to the Education site, they have a list of things that they are supposed to know. So, I think it's more of a State by State standard as opposed to a National standard. This, of course, doesn't solve any of the problems you encounter when transferring schools.
Btw, I read a post on Sex in Japan today. I was tempted to post it to the list but um...it's probably a bit more graphic than some would like. :}
Where did you read that, out of curiosity? Was it like about love hotels and karaoke boxes? Or was it about the more refined details?
: mumbles : I don't think homeschooling is a very good thing.
Quote from: "Eimi"Where did you read that, out of curiosity? Was it like about love hotels and karaoke boxes? Or was it about the more refined details?
You want the link? :) I can email it to you if you like. I shall do that!
Quote from: "Jane": mumbles : I don't think homeschooling is a very good thing.
Why is that, Jane?
Quote from: "Amanda N"Why is that, Jane?
: more mumbling : I think it fails to socialise kids and ready them for the real world and I think it is often used to keep children isolated within one set of ideas.
(You know, not wanting to offend anybody, or anything! That's why I'm mumbling.)
Why do you like it?
Quote from: "Jane"Quote from: "Amanda N"Why is that, Jane?
Why do you like it?
Well, I disagree on the socialising. There are other ways to socialise besides school. My children will be going to Judo where they will interact with other people. We'll be going to a coop once a week where they will interact with other people. We go to church once a week where they interact with other people. There's lots of ways to socialise outside of school. :)
I like it because, yes, I can teach my beliefs to my children freely. I also like it because I'm not happy with the way public education is going right now. So many children, not enough teachers, and really, I think the children can learn more than the teachers are able to teach because of the larger classes. I see a lot of discipline problems in public school as well (I experienced quite a lot in my schools). I also like it because I can go at the child's pace. If something happens and we have to go out of town or the children are sick, I don't have to worry about how much school they miss.
Also, we can delve deeper into things in schooling than they would in a public school. Granted, they could do this in a public school, but we can do it as a part of class as opposed to adding something else onto what they have already brought home from work. In addition, I think I can help to make things more interesting that what public schools often do.
Lastly, I have a learning disorder and since it's a genetic one that generally goes through the mother's line, my children are very likely to have it as well. This way, I can help them cope with it.
So...there are a few reasons. :)
I see nothing wrong with homeschooling, though I have noticed a few friends have a bit more trouble when they get into university when they've been homeschooled. The ridgity of it, the deadlines, the pressures, the study habits. But I think that's more a case by case thing. Some of them actually over achivers in university, so I guess there are good arguments both ways on that score.
I personally wouldn't homeschool my kids, though, just because I don't feel there's a need to where I was living. Washington has really good schools. I think I was personally suited for public school. The other kids encouraged a competitive streak in me acedemically sometimes, which could be fun. I was also a very shy child. Being in public school forced me to break out of my shell and learn how to make friends (especially changing schools). And bringing home my homework from school and showing my parents what I had done gave me a sense of pride. I could tell them all about what I was learning, and we could discuss it together during dinner. And then there were the concerts and plays, parent/student nights... Yeah, I loved public school. I know its not for everyone, but I'd want my kids to experience all that, I think.
I have a totally different perspective on public school and socializing. I begged my parents to homeschool me every year after I got into middle and high school. Because of my test scores and IQ I was placed into gifted. Our gifted was the same 20 or so people, and we had ALL classes except our elective (music or wheel) together. Yes, every class. Math, science, history, English... for 7 of the 8 periods of school, I was with the _same_ people _every day_ for years!
The problem was, they hated me. I was bullied and abused and ignored for years. They would tell me I smelled and spray perfume on me, shove soap bars in my bag and tell me I was unclean (and I showered every day, so it's not like it was true!), stick horrible hurtful notes in my locker, and all kinds of things like that. My gym clothes would get stolen. There was all kinds of problems. EVERY DAY. When group work was assigned, no one would ever pick me, and the teacher had to always put me in a group. My group would then proceed to ignore any input I had, and the teachers tried to get them to pay attention to me but they never would. They usually never spoke to me, and treated me as if I wasn't there. As if I was invisible. It was pretty much as bad verbal abuse and ignoring bullying as you can get.
I honestly believe that in really severe cases, when the student just can't function in public schooling, whether it be special needs, unable to fit in, whatever, that the ability to be homeschooled needs to be there. My public school experience was miserable socially, and I have several emotional issues that still haunt me to this day, caused entirely by those people. If I'd been able to escape and be homeschooled I probably wouldn't have those problems. Sometimes getting out of the system is the only safe thing.
Though I do believe in some cases home-schooling should be an option, I don't think that it's always the best choice. My reasons:
1) Many parents are not equipped to teach. I've known parents who were trying to homeschool their children who hadn't even earned a GED, couldn't balance a checkbook, had no organizational or time management skills. Basically, these people were setting themselves and their children up for failure. In addition, the expectations held for the children may be unrealistic.
2) Often parents pull children from public schools for the wrong reasons. Removing a child from a situation without first helping him/her to work through a problem -- or at least try to do so -- teaches that it's ok to run away when confronted with a problem.
3) Parents are not required to supply that socialization aspect and sometimes remain in very closed situations. Couple that with a parent who pulled the child from school because of suspected abuse or neglect, and you have a potential problem situation.
4) Teaching and parenting both require vast amounts of patience. It's easy to use up one's stores of patience and have none left over at the end of the day. Believe me, at the end of the day, I'd just as soon not see any more children.
You know, I really just posted about this because I was annoyed at the right to choose how to educate their children was being taken away from parents. ;}
Quote from: "Avril"I have a totally different perspective on public school and socializing. I begged my parents to homeschool me every year after I got into middle and high school. Because of my test scores and IQ I was placed into gifted. Our gifted was the same 20 or so people, and we had ALL classes except our elective (music or wheel) together. Yes, every class. Math, science, history, English... for 7 of the 8 periods of school, I was with the _same_ people _every day_ for years!
The problem was, they hated me. I was bullied and abused and ignored for years. They would tell me I smelled and spray perfume on me, shove soap bars in my bag and tell me I was unclean (and I showered every day, so it's not like it was true!), stick horrible hurtful notes in my locker, and all kinds of things like that. My gym clothes would get stolen. There was all kinds of problems. EVERY DAY. When group work was assigned, no one would ever pick me, and the teacher had to always put me in a group. My group would then proceed to ignore any input I had, and the teachers tried to get them to pay attention to me but they never would. They usually never spoke to me, and treated me as if I wasn't there. As if I was invisible. It was pretty much as bad verbal abuse and ignoring bullying as you can get.
I honestly believe that in really severe cases, when the student just can't function in public schooling, whether it be special needs, unable to fit in, whatever, that the ability to be homeschooled needs to be there. My public school experience was miserable socially, and I have several emotional issues that still haunt me to this day, caused entirely by those people. If I'd been able to escape and be homeschooled I probably wouldn't have those problems. Sometimes getting out of the system is the only safe thing.
I had the very same problem, especially during Middle School. Worst part about it was that the Teachers made fun of me too, and made me feel like there was something wrong with me. It nearly drove me over the edge near the end of Middle School and I was lucky enough to survive through it all. If I could, I would have chosen homeschooling, and then gone through high school in the public school system when I was ready to deal with other people. I had several friends that did that, and they exceed way beyond the school standards, and were also very socially advanced. Not to mention the fact they were around adults more (parent influence) so they were more responsible.
Quote from: "Amanda N"You know, I really just posted about this because I was annoyed at the right to choose how to educate their children was being taken away from parents. ;}
I guess I'm not convinced that the 'right to chose how to educate their children' should rest entirely with the parents.
There's no homeschooling in Finland and very little private schools either. There public school-system has a national standard and it's in general, very good one. We rate high on PISA-reachers. However, there's still problems: lack of funding, over-sized classess (or not enough students in some regions), lack of teachers and school-bullying. Where I live, the community is growing fast, and the schools run out of room. They have problems to find room to all students and they turned library etc to classrooms. They are also building a new school to help with situation, but it will be year or two before it's ready.
My son has wears eyeglasses and he's told that sometimes others make fun of him becouse of it. *sigh* But I wouldn't be able to homeschool him, since I don't feel I'm cabable to teach him all that would be required.
I don't think I'd want to educate any children I had at home. Apart from the potential social issues, I'd not want them to feel different from their peers in the area. Plus there are some incredible state schools in the area with far better results than the private ones. Yes, the education system does have its problems here in this countries, such as class size and under funding for some subjects. But hey, I turned out okay.
And they are working on alternatives for the kids who go through the kind of things that some of you have described. Special units that deal with kids who have learning issues, or have suffered with bullying. These feature non-traditional types of education that are adapted to suit the needs of each individual as far as possible, run by some incredibly talented people.
Quote from: "Jane"I guess I'm not convinced that the 'right to chose how to educate their children' should rest entirely with the parents.
The thing is, they are the children of the parents. Take away that right, you might as well take away the freedom to worship as you wish (or to not worship), the right to choose what you eat, the right to speak what you want. Should other people choose what rights you do and do not have?
You know what guys, this conversation is starting to veer a little too deeply into political issues and debate, and while I love a good debate as much as the next gal, we've had some trouble in the past discussing issues that people may have strong opinions/feelings about on the forums. Of course, feel free to continue this discussion, but if we want to debate the issues, we should probably keep that to AIM/MSN/some other chat medium.
Quote from: "Eimi"You know what guys, this conversation is starting to veer a little too deeply into political issues and debate, and while I love a good debate as much as the next gal, we've had some trouble in the past discussing issues that people may have strong opinions/feelings about on the forums. Of course, feel free to continue this discussion, but if we want to debate the issues, we should probably keep that to AIM/MSN/some other chat medium.
Sorry Eimi. I honestly didn't start this thread to be a debate. I was just not happy with the court ruling.