bon soir, guten abend, howdy y'all! (i say 'good evening' because it's always evenin when i'm a prowlin')
i'm :shaking2: _this_ excited to be here, making my first post to the forums...
Please call me ambrosia, pleased to meet y'all. Currently residing in Oklahoma, previous resident of Dordrecht (Holland), Indiana (undergrad), Innsbruck (Austria, just a year) and Kansas (yes, a former farmgirl), I'm married (to a Dutchman) with a ginger tabby cat and a hyper little Kooiker-puppy (looks like a downsized Brittney, with black eyeliner and earrings) who loves to jump and fetch and shred the mail. Oh, and i'm a grad student in linguistic anthropology, studying :book: (um, procrastinating - no, taking a study break!) for my final final exams, before starting my research _in earnest_ and working on the big D.
Aryn's my sona, that i've adopted (thx Elaine, she's a gem), with green Viyanth at DFW. I'm trying my wings with her, and looking forward to developing some fun storylines (coposts welcome!) but hope to write another sometime soon...er or later.
i'm a total :newb: to PBEM, and official Pern fandom, though i've loved AM for years, ever since finding Dragonsinger and Dragonsong in my youth... wait *clinging stubbornly to my favorite fiction* i'm still young...
Shoutouts to Eimi and Clancey for welcoming me to the group and encouraging me to get my feet wet here! :thumbright: Thx so much!
So looking forward to meeting/reading/ROTFL/coposting/cowering in fear with/from you all!
yours, ambrosia. :happy10:
Welcome, Ambrosia!
Life is a bit quiet here right now but hopefully things'll pick up eventually.
In the meantime, if you would like to copost, I have a few at DFW who would be willing!
http://www.triadweyrs.org/member.php?mb_id=147 (http://www.triadweyrs.org/member.php?mb_id=147)
Tervehdys Ambrosia!
Wow, you've really been around the world!
Warm welcome to the Triad-world. :bounce:
Well, I've introduced myself before, but I figured I'd say it a bit more publically. Yes, I do publically acknowledge knowing ya. Now don't you feel special ;)
:cheers: Happy posting!
Sweeeeeet! That makes 3 anthropologists at Triad! :) I'm an archaeologist, and Avril is in the process of getting her BA. What's the thesis going to be?
I'm always down with coposting, although I've been a little slow of late. I've got characters at all three of the Weyrs and at two of the Holds.
It's good to have you!
Welcome to the mad house!
I have to say Dordrecht is somewhere I've never been to - used to go over to Rotterdam a lot on the ferries and into Amsterdam.
::beams proudly at mentee:::
Isn't she so very special? :)
:bounce: :hello1:
Quote from: "Yvonne"Sweeeeeet! That makes 3 anthropologists at Triad! :) I'm an archaeologist, and Avril is in the process of getting her BA. What's the thesis going to be?
I'm always down with coposting, although I've been a little slow of late. I've got characters at all three of the Weyrs and at two of the Holds.
It's good to have you!
Hi Yvonne - yeah, anthropologists rock! (archaeologists quite literally! :indy: we have a lot of 'm here at OU) :cheers:
Thx for the welcomes, Vix, Eimi, Paula, Emma - it's good to be here! Ooh, loved the finnish greeting, btw, Paula!
My dissertation's going to be on language change - language obsolescence specifically, in an endangered Native American language called Kiowa, and the relation of structural linguistic to cultural change, if i can figure that out. I work with a group on language revitalization, so sometimes i'm tied up but still often in need of a little diversion... all :homework: and no play makes ambrosia a grouchy halfling! I also get to teach, though, which is a trip! :colors:
It's true, Emma - Amsterdam and Rotterdam are fun hotspots, especially if you like to dance or hang out on pub patios or 'terraces' they call them! i got my MA in A'dam - if i'd actually lived there, i'd've never studied! Dordrecht's a beautiful place though - just 15 minutes from Rotterdam by train or car, unless you're in a traffic jam (don't even bother trying in the 'spits' rush hour!)
Quote from: "Clancey"::beams proudly at mentee:::
Isn't she so very special? :)
:bounce: :hello1:
awwwwwh - shucks :ops: :happy7: thx Clancey - the sentiment is mutual! :liebe:
Welcome Ambrosia! I saw you on the forums late last night (late in my time zone so probably early morning in yours!).
I'm sure you'll enjoy the club.
Quote from: "Ambrosia"My dissertation's going to be on language change - language obsolescence specifically, in an endangered Native American language called Kiowa, and the relation of structural linguistic to cultural change, if i can figure that out.
You know, that was one thing that bothered me to no end about Pern... for the distance between settlements and the relative difficulty of travel (dragons not withstanding) I always thought there ought to have been more regional differences in speech! (I am such a nerd...)
Whereabouts is Kiowa spoken? The only real NA language I know anything about at all is Dene. Do you speak Kiowa?
I always figured the same, Yvonne. Personally, I'm surprised Southern and Northern Continent dialects aren't unintelligable XD
Hullo, there! I'm the mostly absent web-monkey, but I thought I'd toss a wave your way! :D
You lived in Innsbruck for a year, huh? I lived in Melk, Austria, for a year. Lovely place! And hey...I just found out yesterday that I'm probably going to have to fly to Oklahoma next year to do some product installation for work. :) I was just thinking that I'm not sure I know ANYONE there!
Welcome to the nuthouse! I'm sure they'll take good care of you. :D
Welcome! It's always nice to see excited new members!
Quote from: "Jane"Welcome Ambrosia! I saw you on the forums late last night (late in my time zone so probably early morning in yours!).
I'm sure you'll enjoy the club.
Yeah, i'm a perpetual night owl... and totally not a morning person. i really only like to see the dawn from the 'other side'... can't stomach coffee in the morning, either, so no helping it i suppose.
Always up for a chat late at night! Gotta fix my computer's internet connection though... my husband's often on his computer when he's not at work.
Thanks for the welcome, Jane :flower:
Quote from: "Eimi"I always figured the same, Yvonne. Personally, I'm surprised Southern and Northern Continent dialects aren't unintelligable XD
Wasn't that one of the purposes of Harpers and of sending them to places other than where they were raised? As teachers they were supposed to be keeping the language standard.
Quote from: "Yvonne"You know, that was one thing that bothered me to no end about Pern... for the distance between settlements and the relative difficulty of travel (dragons not withstanding) I always thought there ought to have been more regional differences in speech! (I am such a nerd...)
Quote from: "Eimi"I always figured the same, Yvonne. Personally, I'm surprised Southern and Northern Continent dialects aren't unintelligable XD
Come join the linguistic Nerd Herd! :brilsmurf: I always wondered that too! Pernese from different places always spoke a little differently in my mind... the only reasons I could come up with, that there weren't more differences were:
1) Lack of interlanguage contact. With all the original settlers seeming to come from the same general place, there weren't many influences from other languages.
2) Shared sense of identity... often dialects and sociolects develop from a need to express differentiation from other groups... sometimes it takes a while for them to develop, and other times they can develop relatively quickly. I thought - maybe the Pernese felt a very strong sense of shared identity? This still seemed (and seems) pretty farfetched to me though.
3) In the Weyrs it would be kind of logical for a dialect leveling influence, with people coming from everywhere, and there being (in some cases) a kind of disconnect from their pasts. Of course, if people still feel a strong association with their pasts (which sometimes grows with distance), that's a reason to _maintain_ or even exaggerated linguistic differences... :profileleft: :profileright:
4) Maybe AM didn't want to write it in - if everyone uses a 'prestige' variety, there's less cause for any linguistic stereotyping, giving people kind of a 'clean slate' in terms of their background... this seems pretty unnatural to me though... but being a Southern Midwestern farmer girl who moved out of state for college, i've always been engrossed with differentiation!
But with the ever-increasing time-depth, and especially with cultural differences between the Northern and Southern Continent, it would make total sense for different dialects to develop... I have noticed that sometimes people associated with SeaCrafting :pirate: use British Isles colloquialisms like 'aye' more, and using the word 'Dar' for father - I'm all for it! :colors: Hooray for linguistic diversity!
Speaking of mobility though - there's probably still too much intercontinental traffic for the dialects to become totally unintelligible... I'm thinking of British, American, and Australian English... the dialects that are more difficult tend to be those with more contanct from other languages (like Scottish, i heard some Scots in a train on the way to a soccer match against Ajax in A'dam one time - i thought they were speaking some Scandinavian language for a while!)
(sorry - this probably got _much_ too nerdy for y'all :study: ) Feel free to shut me up anytime! LOL
Quote from: "Yvonne"Whereabouts is Kiowa spoken? The only real NA language I know anything about at all is Dene. Do you speak Kiowa?
Cool, you know about Dene?! The Canadian one, or the Apache one... I have a Navajo friend who went to Dine college - they're all related, you know. Awesome languages - quite complex! Do you speak any, or know any speakers?
Kiowa is a language of a Plains group; the Kiowa people came down from the Northern Plains and roamed the mid- to southern plains... the Tribal Headquarters is in Oklahoma now. It's related to some Pueblo languages, though - Tewa, Tiwa, Towa, Jemez... still kind of a mystery exactly how that worked, who moved where when. There are stories, but... not exactly confirmed.
I speak _some_ Kiowa, though it's a constant struggle to get better! It's not spoken that often anymore - though there are quite a few elders around who speak some, they tend not to use it much, for different reasons, except in prayer, speeches, or some code-switching (joking, discourse markers...)
It's being taught to some children in school though, so there's still hope that it could live on... takes a lot of work though, and a lot of people who are willing to put in the effort to really learn it... the community is still trying to figure out how to deal with that. (I'm trying to help, as best I can...)
Sorry, there i go rambling... i can talk about that for HOURS, days, weeks... but that's my day job :brilsmurf:
Quote from: "Ambrosia"But with the ever-increasing time-depth, and especially with cultural differences between the Northern and Southern Continent, it would make total sense for different dialects to develop... I have noticed that sometimes people associated with SeaCrafting :pirate: use British Isles colloquialisms like 'aye' more, and using the word 'Dar' for father - I'm all for it! :colors: Hooray for linguistic diversity!
But don't they say that language changes 14% on average every hundred years? Even without other languages interaction, the languages would start incorporating new sayings and slang terms that would be morphed into everyday language and, after a while, changing it completely. And the pronunciation would shift slightly... The Southern continent was settled about 1,200 turns before, and there has been a geographical split between the people for all that time. There has been disputes between the two continents and therefore very little movement for some time. Let's say there has been limited contact and seperated crafthalls for at least 500 turns. That would be a 70% difference in language going off the 14% per 100 turns/year model!
And yes, Jane, they did have harpers helping to regulate the language, but after the split in the Halls, there would have been an inevitable language shift happening independantly of their Northern Hall (which would probably be shifting another way) and so there would be some linguist changes. So there would be standard Southern and standard Northern dialect being taught by the two crafthalls. That is, assuming things worked on Pern as it does on Earth, which as we all know, it doesn't XD
If we followed the letter of the Triad club history on this one ...
QuoteCrafters do not generally move between the continents
... we'd have to re-history many of our current personas! As it is, I think that a universal language is alive and well in the Triad Universe.
Quote from: "Jane"If we followed the letter of the Triad club history on this one ...
QuoteCrafters do not generally move between the continents
... we'd have to re-history many of our current personas!
Luckily the word "generally" leaves a slight bit of wiggle room ;)
Quote from: "Bree"Hullo, there! I'm the mostly absent web-monkey, but I thought I'd toss a wave your way! :D
You lived in Innsbruck for a year, huh? I lived in Melk, Austria, for a year. Lovely place! And hey...I just found out yesterday that I'm probably going to have to fly to Oklahoma next year to do some product installation for work. :) I was just thinking that I'm not sure I know ANYONE there!
Welcome to the nuthouse! I'm sure they'll take good care of you. :D
Hello Bree - luv yr avatar!
Thx for the wave :cat:
Oh yes, i loved Innsbruck - 'cept that i twisted my knee first time i went skiing there! That was a bummer. Melk is near Vienna, right? It's supposed to be a beautiful town... i've never been there though :( Someday!
Well, we're in Norman, just south of Oklahoma city - so if you need any info (places of interest, nice pubs, etc), or would like to meet up for a drink :cheers: , just give us a holler!
Quote from: "Eimi"But don't they say that language changes 14% on average every hundred years? Even without other languages interaction, the languages would start incorporating new sayings and slang terms that would be morphed into everyday language and, after a while, changing it completely. And the pronunciation would shift slightly... The Southern continent was settled about 1,200 turns before, and there has been a geographical split between the people for all that time. There has been disputes between the two continents and therefore very little movement for some time. Let's say there has been limited contact and seperated crafthalls for at least 500 turns. That would be a 70% difference in language going off the 14% per 100 turns/year model!
You're totally on target, Eimi... You know a lot about languages :D (why doesn't that surprise me :sunny: ) Only thing is that unfortunately, it's not quite as regular as that (despite what glottochronologists think - people who measure time depth of languages and families based on a fixed rate of langauge change). Some cultures are a little more conservative than others, while some change their vocabulary quite often due to taboos of using names of those who have passed on.
Quote from: "Eimi"And yes, Jane, they did have harpers helping to regulate the language, but after the split in the Halls, there would have been an inevitable language shift happening independantly of their Northern Hall (which would probably be shifting another way) and so there would be some linguist changes. So there would be standard Southern and standard Northern dialect being taught by the two crafthalls. That is, assuming things worked on Pern as it does on Earth, which as we all know, it doesn't XD
Yup - again, i totally agree with you! :geek: I feel right at home here already! We could have a whole topic on 'linguists of Pern'! LOL
Hurray for wiggle room :shaking2:
Howdy Ambrosia!
Just wanted to add my welcome. I was new to pbem when I joined in September as well! Judging from your posts, you'll be a great addition to triad! :2thumbs:
HI!!!!
Yvonne, you forgot me! :D But I'll forgive you, since I haven't been around much for a few months. Anthropologists rule! (Triad certainly seems to be collecting them, my BA is in cultural anthropology btw)
Glad to see you Ambrosia! I'm sure you'll love it here -and Triad is a great way to get some creative unwinding in when you're working on school! Look me up is you'd like a post!
Again, Welcome to Triad!